Jesus The Logician

It is written:

Mark 7:37-And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, “He has done all things well. He makes both the deaf to hear and the mute to speak.”

Recently, a friend and I were blessed to rewatch a debate between a Christian named Kyle Butt and an an atheist named Blair Scott. (I hope someday this debate will be made available on Kindle).

During Kyle’s first speech, he presented the traditional arguments for the existence of God (the cosmological, teleological, and moral arguments). He provided several some truly amazing evidences which demonstrate the amazing complexity of the universe, pointing back to the Creator. He referenced several scientists (some former atheists turned believers in Gods because of the amazing evidences like Kyle was discussing) in defense of his argument that there is indeed a God.

During his first speech trying to prove atheism, Blair Scott then attacked Kyle, claiming that Christian’s are anti-science and unintellectual. He did not address ANY of the arguments that Kyle raised, instead focusing on issues that were not even relevant to the discussion.

My friend and I laughed.

You see, it is a common staple of our day and age to simply claim that Christians are ignorant and do not believe in logic and science.

Perhaps one reason for this is due to the fact that many are not aware of the intellectual prowess of Jesus.

Indeed, Jesus Christ is a Master logician!

One author has noted several examples of this:

“In addition to the miracles and healing, Jesus regularly put on display his intellect and wisdom, and people gathered and were often as astonished by this sort of display as they were by his miracles. The Bible records several places where the people were “astonished” by Jesus’s teaching. Matthew 7: 28–29 says, “When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes.” In fact, this was, in part, why the religious leaders desired to kill Jesus. Mark 11: 18 says, “They were afraid of him, because the whole crowd was astonished by his teaching.” At one point in Jesus’s ministry, he returned to his hometown of Nazareth. As he began to teach in the synagogue, the people were again astonished by his teaching. But they were confused because they knew Jesus and his family. There were likely people present who had watched Jesus grow up and knew his background. Jesus’s family were commoners, not educated and not brilliant thinkers. Consequently, the people responded, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother called Mary, and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, aren’t they all with us? So where does he get all these things?” (Matt 13: 54–56). At another point, having heard his teaching, the Jews asked in amazement, “How is this man so learned, since he hasn’t been trained?” (John 7: 15). We don’t know exactly what Jesus’s educational experience was as he grew up, but we can speculate a bit based on what we know a typical Jewish person would have experienced. Jesus was the son of a carpenter and likely apprenticed with his father, Joseph, to learn carpentry skills. Jesus also would have had some form of semiformal education in the local synagogue to learn about the Hebrew Scriptures. But he clearly became a full-fledged rabbi in the eyes of the people. How did a carpenter’s apprentice become a rabbi without extensive training? The people were astonished because he had all the skills of an extremely talented rabbi without ever having been discipled under and trained by a rabbi. We get some insight into the intellectual development of Jesus in a short passage in Luke 2 when Jesus was only twelve years old. In fact, this is the first time the Gospels record people being astonished by Jesus’s intellect was when he was twelve years old. Two verses mention the wisdom of Jesus as he grew. In v. 40, Luke says, “The boy grew up and became strong, filled with wisdom, and God’s grace was on him.” Then in v. 52, Luke concludes the chapter saying, “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and with people.” Jesus not only grew physically, but he grew in his wisdom and intellectual skill. The point is that Jesus, as the twelve-year-old incarnate God, had need to develop his intellectual potential and talents. What does it look like for an adolescent to be filled with wisdom? Sandwiched between these two statements of Jesus’s wisdom is a story that helps answer this question. Having been in Jerusalem for the Jewish Passover festival, Jesus’s family departed Jerusalem to head back to Nazareth. Much to his parents’ surprise (and, likely, the horror that comes from having a missing child), Jesus wasn’t with them. It took them three days to find “him in the temple sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions” (Luke 2: 46). Let’s notice a few things about this passage. First, Jesus was sitting among the temple teachers. These were the elite Jewish scholars and likely some of the exact individuals Jesus would later confront. He was not sitting at their feet but sitting among these elite scholars as a twelve-year-old. Second, though he sat among them, Jesus had the posture of a learner. He listened and asked questions. Jesus developed and grew in his intellectual skill and knowledge as he grew physically. 3 Here in the temple, Jesus was the learner. A person who would become intellectually skilled must do a lot of listening, especially to those who are experts. Let’s just say twelve-year-olds are not well known for being good listeners, but Jesus was among these teachers listening. And he not only listened passively; he also asked questions. He sought understanding. In short, Jesus was seeking to be a critical thinker. The teachers, as Luke goes on to tell us, were “astounded at his understanding and his answers” (Luke 2: 47). Even his parents were “astonished” by the scene of their twelve-year-old sitting among the temple teachers when, in their minds, he was supposed to be on the way back to Nazareth (v. 48). These are the first of many times in the life of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, that people were astonished by Jesus. This passage is important because it is a window into Jesus’s formative years. Jesus was an eager and inquisitive learner who displayed significant intellectual skill in his understanding. In a way, if we want to know how to grow to be like Jesus, this passage tells us how Jesus himself grew. We can’t skip the process of being formed in our intellectual abilities. Jesus may not have had a rabbi under whom he apprenticed in an official capacity, but we do. We have Jesus himself as the perfect exemplar of fully formed intellectual skill, and we should strive to be like him in this.” (Travis Dickinson, Logic and the Way of Jesus: Thinking Critically and Christianly, 33-35 (Kindle Edition(; Nashville, TN: B&H Academic)

While unbelievers rage against reason, Christians continue to speak words of “truth and reason” (Acts 26:25) as we “prove all things” and “hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Amen.

12 thoughts on “Jesus The Logician

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  1. Interesting claims, but that is all you have. There is not one bit of evidence to support them, much less that Jesus Christ, son of god ever existed.

    Christians often fail to realize that their bible is the set of claims, which cannot be evidence for themselves.

    As for the claim that Jesus taught critical thinking, that is quite wrong. This character taught blind obedience. The stories are full of nonsense that actual critical thinking destroys. Examples are, 1. the claim one can see the entire earth from a mountain: that only works on a flat earth, which doesn’t exist. 2. the parable of the sower: the sower is at fault for being too stupid to cast the seeds where they would grow.

    These are only a couple of out many. Add to that all of the baseless and ridiculous claims, like the dead wandering around Roman-occupied Jerusalem, the religoio is no different than any other set of ignorant myths.

      1. they do not answer my questions, Mark. They are all typical excuses and false claims given by Christians.

        for example, claims that archaeology supports the claims of the bible are false. There is no evidence of Israelite slaves in ancient Egypt in the numbers claimed by the bible nor is there any evidence of the events in Exodus. Not one latrine, trashpit, grave has been discovered for the 600,000+ people that supposedly wandered around for 40 years in an area half the size of Pennsylvania. Christians and jews can’t even agree when this supposedly happened, and unsurprisingly, not one of Egypt’s enemies noticed them losing their entire army, food supply and a sizable portion of their population.

        That’s your problem, no evidence for the magic bits of the bible, so your claims are equivalent of claiming that a Spider-man comic book is true because it mentions New York City, or the myth that Athena and Poseidon participated in a contest to name the city of Athens.

      2. You say there is no evidence but I’ve provided tons of evidence. The problem isn’t lack of evidence: it is refusal to accept the evidence.

        Here is some more for you:

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/05/archaeology-and-ezra/#more-1611

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/04/judges-and-archaeology/#more-1590

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/08/does-archaeology-disprove-the-bible/#more-1689

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/05/archaeology-and-the-seven-year-famine/#more-1227

        https://marktabata.com/2021/07/21/king-nebuchadnezzars-madness-confirmed-by-archaeology/#more-1024

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/16/archaeological-evidences-of-joseph-in-egypt/#more-1770

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/05/how-a-lock-shows-us-that-the-book-of-judges-is-authentic/#more-1617

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/05/the-mysterious-mounds/#more-1610

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/04/joseph-and-imhotep/#more-1607

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/04/giants-lets-ask-the-smithsonian/#more-1597

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/11/the-dead-sea-scrolls-and-the-new-testament-scriptures/#more-1276

        https://marktabata.com/2021/07/21/the-qumran-fragments-and-the-new-testament/#more-1023

        https://marktabata.com/2021/11/18/genesis-and-the-enuma-elish-2/#more-1771

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/07/the-ebla-tablets/#more-1251

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/06/the-apiru-part-one/#more-1231

        https://marktabata.com/2021/03/12/evidences-of-a-global-flood/#more-950

        https://marktabata.com/2021/09/30/the-ipuwer-papyrus/#more-1177

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/15/the-continuing-confirmation-of-the-exodus/#more-1394

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/05/the-joseph-coins-2/#more-1226

        https://marktabata.com/2021/10/06/the-apiru-part-two/#more-1232

      3. and still more fail, Mark. Not one of these is evidence for your claims.

        The ipuwer papyrus mentions nothing about any of the events in the bible. That Christians and Jews try to claim it does shows just how little they have to support their nonsense. Any mere mention of a problem in Egypt, suddenly becomes 10 plagues, which no one noticed at all.

        I do love the “joseph coin” nonsense. Funny how there is not one image of these supposed coins. Gee, I wonder why.

        The same holds for the lies you have told about the Smithsonian supposedly documenting “giants”. I always love unsupported lies in self-published books. Quayle is a hilarious liar who preys on other morons to get them to buy gold. Like so many Christian liars, he never seems able to produce evidence for his claims.

      4. Vel,

        Your words just show your anger and arrogance. Every one of the facts I presented demonstrates concrete proof of the historical accuracy of the Bible, but you just want to hunt up a reason to reject them.

        1. The Ipuwer Papyrus is a document that contains several examples of confirmation of the Ten Plagues.

        2. The Joseph coins photos cannot be reproduced without violating copyright law.

        3. The Smithsonian Institute contains all of the information noted above.

        There is a reason why biblical archaeologist Titus Kennedy has noted:

        “Because the Bible contains stories from the ancient world, written in a style different than the method of modern historians and paired with theology, many have assumed that the narratives in the Bible are myth, legend, and propaganda instead of accurate history. In fact, the majority of scholars, most media and educational sources, and many in the general public regard the Bible as a fairy tale and frequently portray it as unimportant or irrelevant beyond literary and religious studies. For years, the Bible has been routinely attacked and disregarded on the basis of history or archaeology. And yet when people look into what archaeologists have unearthed, a different story comes to light, showing that instead of fiction and fairy tales, archaeology indicates that the Bible preserves an accurate recounting of the history addressed in its pages. Specifically, hundreds of artifacts from the distant past have demonstrated the events, people, and places in the Bible to be historical.” (Titus M. Kennedy, Unearthing the Bible: 101 Archaeological Discoveries That Bring the Bible to Life, 9(Kindle Edition); Eugene, Oregon; Harvest House Publishers)

        The problem here isn’t evidence: it is a hardened heart and an arrogant disposition that refuses to accept the facts.

        It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries. (Dr. Nelson Glueck)

        Again:

        Archaeology has confirmed countless passages which have been rejected by critics as unhistorical or contradictory to known facts…Yet archaeological discoveries have shown that these critical charges…are wrong and that the Bible is trustworthy in the very statements which have been set aside as untrustworthy…We do not know of any cases where the Bible has been proved wrong. (Dr. Joseph Free)

      5. Well, here we go. The ipuwer papyrus mentions no plagues and none of the events in exodus. The text is out there so quote from it where you want to say it mentions the plagues, etc. I’ll be waiting.

        ROFL. Oh my, sorry dear, it is a lie that the coins can’t be reproduced because of “copyright law”. Copyright law has no effect on the photos of coins and gee, if they are so important and true, the owner of the coins can waive copyright if that indeed would be the case (it isn’t). You are truly incompetent, but do keep lying and demonstrating that you have no more interest in listeing to your god’s commands than I am.

        The Smithsonian Institution, not “institute”, has never claimed to have had giant humanoid remains. It is, again, a lie. Christians like you do love baseless claims from other chrisitans.

        Titus Kennedy is a fraud, who like Ron Wyatt, just can’t even seem to show evidence for his claims. Frauds like them depend on the ignorant and desperate like you.

        I always love the claim that the bible is written in different “styles”, as a way to excuse the nonsense within. There is no evidence to support the claims in the bible. There are no “hundreds of artifacts” that support the claims in the bible. As always, poor dear Titus can never show these artifacts. It’s also grand fun to see the common Christian claim that since there are mentions of real people and real places in the bible, that means that the bible claims must be true. If this is the case, then every god of every religion is as real as yours since the myths of those cultures also mention real people and places.
        Alas for Glueck, plenty of archaeological discoveries have disproven bible stories. The problem that Glueck, and you, have is that Chrisitans and Jews can’t agree on when a supposed magical event happened. So, we have both absence of evidence for the magic, and we have evidence of absence since at any time claimed by theists, other things have happened, no magic to be seen. You also have the problem that Glueck made many baseless claims like finding “king solomon’s mines” which is known to be nonsense.

        Repeating lies doesn’t make them true, Mark. Repeating long superseded nonsense is even more amusing. Unsurprisingly, you have to cite long disproven claims and claims that have no evidence to support them, as well as lie about things like “copyright law”. We indeed do know that the bible has been proven wrong, since we have no evidence of 600,000+ people leaving Egypt at any point in time, language changing in a day at Babel, a worldwide 28,000+ foot deep flood, any fabulous palaces or temples, no “wisest man in the world”, no day where the sky darkened and a major earthquake happened and the dead wandered around Roman-occupied Jerusalem on a Passover, etc.

      6. Yes, here we go.

        I have quoted evidences from numerous Christian and non-Christian sources regarding the archaeological confirmation of the Bible. I have also noted several examples of how archaeological evidences support the claims of the Bible.

        You really are having a hard time with that, aren’t you?

        Well, let’s have some more. 🙂

        Since you seem to have a particular fascination with the Ipuwer Papyrus, let’s camp there a while.

        “Though the evidence for the Exodus has been slow to be gathered, there is good reason to believe that it actually occurred as described in the Bible. This thinking is based on the biblical testimony, Egyptian extrabiblical sources, and archaeological excavation in Egypt and neighboring regions. For example, one of the most well-known known documents in Egyptology is the Ipuwer papyrus (officially known as Papyrus Leiden 344), which records an account remarkably similar to the plagues described in the book of Exodus. The papyrus was obtained b y Swedish diplomat, Giovanni Anastasi, and sold to the Leiden Museum in Holland in 1828. No one realized the exact significance of the contents of the document until the first full translation was done in 1909 by a British Egyptologist, Alan H.Gardiner, under the title The Admonitions of an Egyptian tian Sage from a Hieratic Papyrus in Leiden. In addition, there have been many later full translations made, including an Oxford edition (2009). Currently, the document is stored at the National Museum of Antiquities in the Netherlands. Its contents are widely regarded by Egyptologists as a lamentation over the catastrophic conditions in Egypt written by a high Egyptian official named Ipuwer sometime time prior to the thirteenth century BC (which is consistent with either an early or late chronology for the Exodus) .* Ipuwer was known as one of the great wise sages in Egyptian tian history. His astonishing description of the conditions, to the surprise of Egyptologists, gists, appeared remarkably similar to the biblical account of the ten plagues recorded in the book of Exodus. The date of the Ipuwer manuscript approximately fits the Exodus date. The hieratic script style was in use at that time period, the events described are remarkably similar to the plagues, the location of the events (Egypt) matches the setting of the Exodus, and the odds of all these calamities occurring at the same time make them more than coincidental. dental. There is no scientific, linguistic, or historical fact that Egyptologists can point to that would decisively preclude the content of the papyrus being a lament over the Exodus plagues. A simple comparison of the content in both the book of Exodus and the Ipuwer papyrus leaves little doubt to their similarities (see table below).” (Joseph M. Holden & Norman Geisler, The Popular Handbook Of Archaeology And The Bible: Discoveries That Confirm The Reliability of Scripture, 2555-2568 (Kindle Edition); Eugene, Oregon; Harvest House Publishers).

        Now, let’s have some specific examples of how the Ipuwer Papyrus confirms the accounts of the Bible. Please pay special attention Vel.

        “Exodus 4: 9—And it shall be, if they do not believe even these two signs, or listen to your voice, that you shall take water from the river and pour it on the dry land. The water which you take from the river will become blood on the dry land.”

        Ipuwer 7: 5—Behold, Egypt is fallen to the pouring of water. And he who poured water on the ground seizes the mighty in misery.”

        Exodus 7: 20-21-20 And Moses and Aaron did so, just as the LORD commanded. So he lifted up the rod and struck the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants. And all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. 21 The fish that were in the river died, the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink the water of the river. So there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

        Ipuwer 2: 10—The River is blood. If you drink of it, you lose your humanity, and thirst for water .”

        Exodus 9: 6, 23, 31—So the LORD did this thing on the next day, and all the livestock of Egypt died; but of the livestock of the children of Israel, not one died…. And Moses stretched out his rod toward heaven; and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and fire darted to the ground. And the LORD rained hail on the land of Egypt…. Now the flax and the barley were struck, for the barley was in the head and the flax was in bud.

        Ipuwer 6: 3; 3: 3; 7: 13—Gone is the barley of abundance . . . . Food supplies are running short. The nobles hunger and suffer . . . . Those who had shelter are in the dark of the storm .”

        Exodus 10: 15, 7—For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they ate every herb of the land and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left. So there remained nothing green on the trees or on the plants of the field throughout all the land of Egypt…. Then Pharaoh’s servants said to him, “How long shall this man be a snare to us? Let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God. Do you not yet know that Egypt is destroyed?”

        Ipuwer 3: 13—“ What shall we do about it? All is ruin! ”

        Exodus 12: 29—And it came to pass at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of livestock.

        Ipuwer 2: 5, 6, 13; 4: 3—“ Behold, plague sweeps the land, blood is everywhere, with no shortage of the dead . . . . He who buries his brother in the ground is everywhere . . . . Woe is me for the grief of this time.”

        Exodus 12: 30—So Pharaoh rose in the night, he, all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where there was not one dead.”

        Ipuwer 3:14—Wailing is throughout the land, mingled with lamentations.”

        Those are some examples of how the Ipuwer Papyrus records events to what took place in the Exodus Vel.

        But let’s have a little more shall we?

        You have also insinuated that there is no evidence that the Jews were in Egypt as slaves during the time of the Exodus.

        However:

        “There is no doubt that there was a significant Semitic population throughout Egypt during the New Kingdom (see chap. 3).Because of the preponderance of epigraphic evidence for a Syro-Palestinian presence in Egypt from the mid to late second millennium B.C., even the most skeptical historian cannot dismiss the fact that both the Bible and Egyptian sources agree on this situation.42 Even as far south as Thebes there was a significant number of Semitic-speaking people during the Empire period.43 The names of Semites have even turned up among the workers of Deir el-Medineh in western Thebes.44” (James K. Hoffmeier, Israel In Egypt: The Evidence For The Authenticity Of The Exodus Tradition, 3689-3697 (Kindle Edition); New York, New York; Oxford University Press)

        Again:

        “If the children of Jacob were never slaves in Egypt in the first place, then how comes it that there lies in the Brooklyn Museum a papyrus, conventionally dated to around 1700 BC, which lists a number of Hebrew slaves, slaves who possessed such familiar names as Shiphrah and Menahem? 12 Shiphrah is of considerable interest to us, for that is the name of one of the Hebrew midwives mentioned in Exodus 1:15. Is it one and the same person? Who knows? However, not only the slaves’ names, but their offices and duties are also listed – ‘chief over the house’ (the very same office, that of ‘mer- per’, which Joseph held under Potiphar), ‘house servant’ and so on. Out of 95 slaves listed for this particular household, 37 no less are Hebrew. 13” (Bill Cooper, The Authenticity Of The Book Of Genesis, 2035-2040 (Kindle Edition)).

        Oh but I forgot….Christians are just telling “lies.”

        My friend, it is time for you to fess up here and acknowledge what is painfully obvious: archaeology continuously confirms the historicity of the Bible. I have already presented plenty of evidence from archaeologists like Gleuck (whose testimony remains unblemished regarding the Bible and archaeology).

        Here is a little more for you:

        “”In extraordinary ways, modern archaeology has affirmed the historical core of the Old and New Testaments-corroborating key portions of the stories of Israel’s patriarchs, the Exodus, the Davidic monarchy, and the life and times of Jesus.” (Jeffery Sheler, US News &WorldReport (October 25, 1999), 52)

        Again:

        “In extraordinary ways, modern archeology Is affirming the historical core of the Old and New Testaments, supporting key portions of crucial biblical stories.” (Jeffery L Sheler, “Is the Bible True?” Reader’s Digest, June 2000)

        Oh, but I am “lying” about the Smithsonian Institute and giants according to you.

        “The following is a brief list of documented findings, all recorded in the Annual Report of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution Showing the Operations, Expenditures, and Condition of the Institution for the Year […] series (each book title ending with the year the discovery was made): · One skull measuring “36 inches in circumference.”[ 152] Anna, Illinois, 1873. (The average circumference measurement for the human skull is between twenty-one and twenty-three inches, depending on varying factors such as sex, ethnicity, etc.) · One full skeleton with double rows of teeth, buried alongside a gigantic axe, referred to in the report as a “gigantic savage.”[ 153] The skeleton—with a colossal skull—fell apart after exhumation, so an exact height/ head circumference was not reported, but the record states that “its height must have been quite [meaning “at least”] seven feet.” Amelia Island, Florida, 1875. · Giant axes and “skinning stones.”[ 154] One weighed over fifteen pounds, had an ornately carved handle, and was of such mass that it was documented: “Only a giant could have wielded this.” Kishwaukee Mounds, Illinois, 1877. · One jawbone that easily slipped around the entire face of a large man on the research team; one thigh bone measuring “four inches longer than that of a man six feet two inches high”; one “huge skeleton, much taller than the current race of men.”[ 155] Kishwaukee Mounds, Illinois, 1877. According to the Fifth Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1883–1884, shortly following the discoveries in this bullet list, the Smithsonian team found ten more skeletons in mounds and burial sites in Wisconsin, Illinois, West Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia. Not every one of them was measured for height, but each was documented as much larger than the skeletons of our current race; those that were measured ranged between seven to seven and a half feet long.[ 156] Similarly, in the Twelfth Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1894, two enormous skulls, several baffling femur bones, and seventeen full skeletons also measuring between seven to seven and a half feet long (one in East Dubuque, Illinois, measured almost eight feet) were unearthed in Illinois, Mississippi, Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia.[ 157] The West Virginia dig report contains an additional claim of “many large skeletons,” generically.[ 158] From these reports listed, more than forty thousand artifacts were found, including weapons, tools, jewelry, and various utensils that could not have feasibly been used by regular-sized humans.” (Stephen Quayle & Dr.Thomas R. Horn, Unearthing the Lost World of the Cloudeaters: Compelling Evidence of the Incursion of Giants, Their Extraordinary Technology, and Imminent Return, 4911-4937 (Kindle Edition); Defender Publishing)

        Did you know that these reports are available through Amazon?

        (By the way: these reports are identified as being from the Smithsonian INSTITUTION….your correction to “Institute” must not have realized this fact).

        But since this is such a sticking point with you as much as the Ipuwer Papyrus, let’s have some more.

        Since you are obviously an expert on Internet research, let me encourage you to look up the Rekhmire Tomb Paintings dating back to about 1475 B.C. You will see examples of the Egyptians drawing images of giants being taken in battle.

        Then maybe take a look at the Anastasi Papyrus, which describes Egyptian battles with the Shosu.

        “23,5 ones to look. Their eyes are good, thy hand grows weak(?)”. 25: T\’Q “^ /Q3 rn2«*’. Thou makest the name of every Maher, officers of the land of Egypt”. Thy name becomes like (that of) K-dr-d-y^ the chief of *I-s-r^*^ when the hyena” found him in the balsam-tree’*. — The(r) narrow defile’* is infested (?) with Shosu concealed beneath the bushes; some of them are of four cubits or of five cubits, from head(??) to foot(?)'”, fierce of face, their heart is not mild, and they hearken not to coaxing. Thou art alone, there is no helper(?)” with thee, no army””. (Sir Alan Henderson Gardiner, Egyptian Hieratic Texts Transcribed,1074-1086 (Kindle Edition) emphasis added, M.T.)

        Using the Egyptian royal cubit, this makes these giants roughly eight feet tall or larger.

        If you want more, just ask and I will gladly provide it.

        Now, you say this is all a lie-but here I am providing the proof.

        Regarding copyright law and the Joseph coins, I happen to know just a “little” about this. Several years ago, my wife was in the process of publishing a children’s book on Christian evidences and she had to purchase a license to reproduce a deal that she included in it. I provided documentation of the Joseph Coins, but you prefer to ignore it.

        It is not about a lack of evidence Vel, it is about the hardened condition of your heart. I hope you will decide to open it to the truth.

        Have a blessed day!! 🙂

      7. and funny how not oen of these are from a non-christain source. Sheler is a Christian, dear and an apologist. Try again.

        and again, still lies about copyright about the coins. Funny how there are no photos to be copyrighted. Oh darn!

        no evidence of giants, and the shosu weren’t giants. I do love that you haven’t a clue what a cubit is and that “giants” are no taller than a pro basketball player. Oh noes, the giants! ROFL.

        I do love the quotes from the Ipuwer papyrus, and how they don’t match Exodus. 7.5 doesn’t mention anything about “pouring water”, nor about who did it.

        The nile often turns red, and this is nothing new.

        Nothing new about famine, and surprise no magic fire falling from the sky, nor locusts, nor frogs, etc.

        No mention of all of the first born dying, just the usual death that can happen from illness. It wasn’t limited to the first born dear, don’t you think they’d hve mention such a thing?

        Yep, lots of semitic speakin people. Not all semitic people are Israelites, adn still not one latrine, trashpit or grave found from the 600,000+ plus people and animals wandering around, *despite* the bible saying where they went. Funny, hmmm?

        alas, Glueck isn’t unquestioned at all.

        Try again.

      8. So you now are claiming that US News & Word Report and Readers Digest are Christian sources? 😂

        Maybe you should consider the testimony of former skeptic William Ramsay who was firmly opposed to the historicity of the Bible. Indeed, he was so opposed to it that he set out to prove that Luke and Acts were forgeries written over a years years after the first century!! In many ways, he was like you (except he had much better arguments against Christianity, which were answered just as easily as yours).

        Then, guess what happened as he came face to face with the archaeological evidence?

        “First, let me share with you the story of Sir William M. Ramsay (1851-1939), famed as the once-skeptical New Testament scholar and archaeologist who became a staunch believer in the historical accuracy of the New Testament. He was educated in Scotland (University of Aberdeen) erdeen) and England (Oxford University), during which time he became enamored with the extremely critical scholarship of the F. C. Baur school of Tubingen, Germany. As a result of this, in 1890, he embarked on a journey through the biblical lands in order to confirm the historical errors rors of the New Testament writers. To his great surprise, he found that, at point after point, archeological data and sound historical scholarship confirmed the accuracy of the New Testament authors, and he wrote several important volumes that are still used to this day.95 Subsequent scholarship over the last century has brought further confirmation to Ramsay’s writings.” (Michael Brown, Answering Jewish Objections To Jesus: Volume Four-New Testament Objections, 41 (Kindle Edition); Grand Rapids, Michigan; Baker Books)

        There comes a point where a person’s comments are just pointless bickering. Thank you for showing the best of atheism for everyone here. I’ll stay with the evidence and continue to follow and speak words of “truth and reason” (Acts 26:25). And I’ll encourage you to open your eyes to the truth.

        I’ll conclude our discussion with this.

        “It is important to realize that archaeological excavations have produced ample evidence to prove unequivocally that the Bible is not a pious forgery. Thus far, no historical statement in the Bible has proven false on the basis of evidence retrieved through archaeologic research.” (Keith N. Schoville, Biblical Archaeology in Focus (Grand Rapids: Baker Books)), p. 156.

        And:

        “There can be no doubt that archaeology has confirmed the substantial historicity of Old Testament tradition.”[“Archaeology and the Religion of Israel,” in An Introduction to Bible Archaeology, ed. Howard F. Vos (Chicago: Moody Press, n.d.), p. 121.)

        And:

        “On the whole, however, archaeological work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record. More than one archaeologist has found his respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine. Archaeology has in many cases refuted the views of modern critics. It has shown, in a number of instances, that these views rest on false assumptions and unreal, artificial schemes of historical development. This is a real contribution and not to be minimized.”[Millar Burrows, “What Mean These Stones?” in An Introduction to Bible Archaeology, ed. Howard F. Vos (Chicago: Moody Press, n.d.), pp. 91-92.)

      9. Looks like you need to do some study on what “I will now bring this conclusion to a close” means.

        Been a pleasure chatting with you! 🙂

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